Climate Adaptation Challenge for Indian Agriculture | ft. Rishika Pardikar & Rakesh Nannewar

[Podcast intro]

Welcome to the season four of the India Energy Hour podcast. This podcast explores the most pressing hurdles and promising opportunities of Indias energy transition through an in depth discussion on policies, financial markets, social movements and science. Your host for this episode is Shreya Jay, Delhi based energy and climate journalist. The show is produced by 101 reporters, a pan India network of grassroots reporters that produces original stories from rural India. Climate change is already impacting many rural areas of India. Farmers in rural areas of India are, facing rise in temperatures and changes in rainfall that negatively impacts production as well as monetary returns. There are many ways to adapt to the impacts of climate change. One way to assist farmers is the district agromet units, a project of indian meteorological department Damus provide free of cost weather advisory services and crucial information related to sowing use of fertilizers, harvesting and storing crops. Instead of expanding the Dami, government of India decided to shut them down. To understand the broader impacts of climate change on farmers, the role of DMU’s and why government decided to shut them down, we interviewed Rishika Pardikar, an indian environmental journalist and PhD scholar. Rakesh Nanuwa. Dothrashika and Rakesh have extensively written about the role and importance of dharma units.

[end]

[Podcast interview]

Sandeep Pai: At the outset, I just want to welcome, Rakesh and Rishika. Of course, Rishika and I have chatted a bit online and in Twitter. and then I came across, you know, some of her recent work that, that has really had a strong impact. And, I also learned about Rakesh. So really just want to welcome both of you to the India Energia podcast.

Rishika Pardikar: Thank you, Sandeep. Yeah, I’ve been following your work as well, and I’m equally impressed by your just transition work. yeah, great to finally have a long conversation here.

Sandeep Pai: Wonderful. okay, so let’s get started. as we do in this podcast always, we start and just start by talking about, like, who you are and so on. So let me just start first with Rakesh. Like, tell us about your personal, professional journey. And this is something a lot of our guests, a lot of our listeners really enjoy because it gives them an understanding, because climate energy are such fields where people come from, all kinds of background and, you know, and then. So it’s sometimes very inspiring for people who attend. So if you want to just explain your background and your current work, that will be amazing.

Rakesh Nannewar: Yeah. So, I’m Rakesh, and, first of all, I would like to thank by. For inviting me for this discussion. Okay, so, basically, I am from Nagpur, districts of Vidarva region, Maharashtra. town name Vivakur. So I started my academic journey. I am a civil engineer. Graduated from the Nagpur University. Then after civil engineering I worked as a junior engineer for one year which is like in department pradhan Manti gram sadhakyojna if you know. So where I was like responsible for the execution of the small scale project of road, village roads basically village roads and small and minor bridges. So I worked as a near about one year there. So during my work only I realized that the apart from technical knowledge I should understand the governance structure basically that demands very participatory approach and to deal with various stakeholders such as from the block lever officer to gram panchayat sarpanch, those stuff. So after one year of work then I thought I should pursue my further study. Then in 2015 I joined in tease under course regulatory governance. So during my these days I realized that I should pursue the field where like the implementation of other services happens. Okay basically I was I work on irrigation project. So irrigation management so where I checked the role of water Users association in one of the paint irrigation project of Maharashtra. So there I started looking at the aspect of participatory approach, participatory governance model, those stuff. Then after my graduation I joined here in the National Institute of Advanced Studies as a research associate. Then one year I worked on the same issue where water energy agriculture nexus that topic I was working. Then I joined as a PhD student here. So basically in my PhD topic which is like focusing on the impact assessment of one of the agricultural extension service. I’ll say agro Metrological advisory services is a part of a agriculture extension service. So I landed up into the climate change domain from the policy implementation part. So that demands like the analyzing weather and climate services. Then I started my journey in the climate change domain. So now I’m looking at the adaptation part of climate change basically in agriculture sector. So that’s how I landed in, landed in climate change issue. So it’s not like my background came from M engineer to policy implementation to the academic career in this domain. So this is how I started.

Sandeep Pai: Right. So you are also one of those who started working in the development space, broadly defined and then got into climate space. There’s many who sometimes start in the climate space and then go into development space. Or do both. But yeah thanks. Thanks for sharing that.

Rishika, do you want to also go ahead and share your. Like, I mean, in the last two, three years, I feel like you have written so many stories on climate and just have it have followed punchy ones. not just, you know, like just writing for the sake of like really from iam models and their iniquity to now writing on farm weather services. So it would be great to hear your thoughts on, about. Not your thoughts. It would be great to hear your story as well and how you got interested in climate.

Rishika Pardikar: So I have been a journalist for a little over six years now. and climate change is one big area of focus. Apart from climate change, I cover wildlife conservation, I cover tribal rights issues, and I also do some science reporting. So I try to cover new research. It helps me also keep updated because I’ve not studied science. Like, I’ve not formally studied science. I’ve not formally studied journalism also. so by qualification, I’m a chartered accountant. I worked as a CA for a year and a half, in a Ca firm, in a mid sized Ca firm here in Bangalore. then I quit and I came into journalism and I came into journalism as a freelancer. this was a big switch, but when I look back now and when I try to make sense of it now, it makes a lot of sense to me because the reason I got into CA was, I was interested in economics. So it was one of my favorite subjects in high school. Economics led me to commerce, commerce led me to Ca. But you can see how it got narrower, right? So economics still has a public interest aspect. With commerce, it gets a little more narrow. With Ca, it gets even more narrow. so somehow it didn’t really fit. So ca, I didn’t really enjoy the work that I was doing, even though studies wise, the material wise, it was very interesting, but, I didn’t find the work very fulfilling. But with journalism, I could get back to the public interest aspect of it. So even during my ca time, I started writing, for newspapers. So I remember I wrote about SEc regulations when, the budget came out. I wrote for Indian Express about the budget. Like, I just covered the budget. But the more I started doing that, the more I realized that’s what I want to do. So I quit and I came into journalism. the quitting happened on not very cordial terms, but that is not the story for this podcast, I think. but yeah, it was slightly impulsive and, so yeah, I quit, but I knew what I wanted to do. It was journalism. So that helped me really focus on what it is I want to learn about what it is I want to do. and there are many areas around Bangalore. So I started off with a lot of wildlife reporting. So I started traveling to mm Hills, to Kaveri sanctuary, to BRT Hills, and I started reporting, some ground reporting also. So I wrote for Manga Bay. And the more I started doing this, I realized, okay, environment is what is the kind of journalism I want to be doing. and since then, it has been only environment. So throughout my entire time, my focus area has been environment issues and. But a variety of environmental issues, whether it was wildlife, tribal rights, and climate change. Now, my big entry into climate change was because I got a fellowship from a, journalism network. So this was for cop 26 in 2021. And, I’m really grateful for this fellowship because it. It has kept me hooked in climate change, because I got a chance to actually go to Glasgow, see how these negotiations happen. And it was crazy, right? So I’m there. I’m a newbie. I’m a newbie journalist, and I’m a newbie climate reporter. But I’m there in Glasgow, and I’m meeting these very seasoned diplomats. I’m trying to catch them. They are actually giving me time. So I was so surprised that, okay, these people hold high positions. They’re part of the cabinet in their countries, and they’re actually talking to me. And that was huge. It was a thrill also as a journalist. And I met a lot of global south negotiators also. And I. And that’s where I think I am speaking to them a lot, is. Is how I have shaped my understanding of developmental issues and the global south perspective. And since the time I covered, negotiations here, I have been entirely hooked on the climate beat. It is this one. If I have to trace back my journey into reporting m climate, it has been this, these negotiations. and then I’ve also covered, climate stories from the ground. So I have traveled to villages in Andhra Pradesh. I’ve traveled to villages in Orissa, to see what is happening in coastal areas. I’ve also reported on agriculture issues before. So the Cauvery basin is one example. I try to understand what is happening with farmers in the Cauvery basin here in Karnataka. So climate has become a big area of focus, in my work today and India.

Sandeep Pai: This is the story that’s really fascinating. I mean, without, if I can, if I’m correct, without any formal training. And now you’ve become such a powerful voice of climate and environment, issues. but anyway, let’s kind of get started because I really want to spend quite a bit of time on the topic itself. Thank you both for sharing your background, which is always. This is probably one of my favorite parts of the podcast. Love hearing people’s backgrounds and their stories and how people come from different lenses and evolve and so on. so given both of your expertise, let me just start with like, kind of big picture question and then get into more nuanced details. So, you know, as a, as a reporter, Rishika, you’ll be, you know, like you said, you’ll be traveling and reporting what kind of impacts, climate impacts, do you see on the ground, especially in rural areas. What have been your personal experience or, you know, what you have heard from people on the ground and love to hear some anecdotes or stories, if you have.

Rishika Pardikar: So I think I can pick, as well, start off with the Andhra Orissa example. So I had traveled to these two coastal villages, one in Andhra and one in Orissa. This was to understand the effectiveness of geotextile tubes. So these are, these are supposed to be a climate adaptation measure. And the indian government has installed these geotextile tubes in two villages in these two states. So I went there to check if it is working or not. so firstly, geotubes are basically big tubes. They are filled with sand. they are covered with rocks and maybe a mesh. So you can think of it like those tetrapods on marine drive. It’s supposed to be something. It’s supposed to give the similar kind of effect. And, these are placed on beaches. So this is supposed to help, safeguard the villages that lie within the length of this geotextile tube. And in lengthwise, they can run to almost a kilometer. A kilometer. So, I went to these two places to understand whether this is helping or not, how people see it. but, what I found was, okay, so, firstly, maintenance work was not carried out. That is one issue that was there. But even if maintenance would have been carried out, it still wouldn’t have safeguarded all of the houses there. So I, I traveled in maybe January or February. So more. So cyclone season here in India is monsoon season. So I traveled after that. And in the previous monsoon, there was a cyclone and some houses were still destroyed. So, people. So when I went and I spoke to the people there, they still were very apprehensive of whether this, this small structure. So to them, it was a small structure that couldn’t really safeguard anything. And I remember I met this one lady, she was probably 60 years old, 55, 60 years old. And in her lifetime, she had moved houses thrice because her home was destroyed thrice. And I also met many other people, and their core demand was rehabilitation. They don’t want to live there anymore. They have seen too much being destroyed by living there, and they wanted to be relocated somewhere else. Then I went and I spoke to the panchayat members. they had a slightly more. I mean, at least they spoke a little more positively about the geotextile queue. But that, I think that was partly fueled by their inability to meet demands of rehabilitation. So a panchayat does not have the money to just to rehabilitate hundreds of people somewhere else. They don’t have the money to buy land and rehabilitate that many people, like entire village, is impossible. So. But you can see how socioeconomic vulnerabilities play out, right? Both at the people level and also at the administration level, which grant panchayat has the money to rehabilitate people. No one. So this. This was one impact. And, so coastal villages. So if you are in Mumbai, for example, I. Even Mumbai, there are many people who cannot afford to relocate, but there are also people. There are many people who can. But in these coastal villages, it. I mean, I don’t think anyone can afford to move somewhere else. It’s very difficult. So it again falls back on the government to have good plans. So these geotextile tubes, I think they are a short term measure. Maybe it can help if done right, if designed well, if maintenance work is carried out. But people’s apprehensions are a lot more. The, other. The other report I did was from. I went to, some islands, in the Sundarbans area. And there again, because, again, it’s a soil erosion, cyclonic storm surges, this kind of impact. And there, people have completely shifted from agriculture to shrimp farming because it’s so saline that they cannot do agriculture anymore. They’ve completely changed their livelihood patterns. the other example, the other report actually was from, the Cauvery basin here in Karnataka. So Cauvery basin extends into Tamil Nadu, Pondicherry and Kerala also. But I just focused on Karnataka area, and it’s a very fertile area. Agriculture is the dominant livelihood for many people in the Kaveri basin. They grow things like rice, sugarcane, ragi, also. So here, this was in 2019, and what happened here was. So June, July are typical sowing months. But in June, July, there was almost no rainfall, very, very scant rainfall. And in August, there was a complete excess of rainfall. So whatever little. They had sowed in June, July, even that got destroyed in August. And I spoke to some farmer associations here in Karnataka and all of them were again saying the same thing. If this keeps happening, then there’s no way they can cope with it actually if people are interested, they can go check this India spent story. You can see the maps there. For June and July, the maps are red, orange and yellow. Deficient rainfall for, August, it is completely dark blue and like bright blue, complete excess. And I will really not be surprised if in the last few years also the same patterns have repeated and farmers have been equally hit again and again, year after year, like. So this, this is the kind of impact that people in rural India are facing, whether it is a coastal village, whether it is farmer. So even if you are a forest dweller. So in India, land tenure is not very secure. eviction threats are always looming. So climate change there acts as a multiplier. It’s really sad what is happening to a huge majority of India’s population who are vulnerable socio economically. They are not as privileged. So yeah.

Sandeep Pai: No, thank you for kind of sharing anecdotes. On the ground. Not only there is impact, but also the adaptive capacity of the state or know the stakeholders is something that one could spend the whole episode on. It’s one of the most interesting aspects, of this. let’s turn to Rakesh.

I know you have worked a lot with farmers, so do you want to kick things off with just explaining the kind of impacts that farmers are facing, in particular, because of increased, you know, increased impacts of climate change?

Rakesh Nannewar: According to me, like the, the challenges, the key challenges for the farmers. I will say, from the two aspects, major, two aspects. The first aspect, of this is the weather related and which which we can say, direct or indirect way. Both direct way or indirectly. And the second aspect of is, is this input related. So in weather related, aspect, we can see that the untimely rainfall, okay, then the increasing extreme events. Then the, this type of, with the increase in extreme events, that leads to the pest attacks, those stuffs. So, that is one key challenges at the crop production level they are facing. And the second they are facing is, related to inputs. So the basically input procurement, which is like feed, fertilizer, manure, those procurements. Then the which is then the access to irrigation. That is the one. Then the access to credit, then access to extension services. This is the second aspect. Of it. So the key challenges, in this, climate change and otherwise also they face are, in this two way, which is first in crop production level. And the second, is in social, economic and the, governance level. And there is a third part of it is like the synergy interplay among this two aspects that leads to another challenge. Okay, so, as Rishik also said, that the, climate change becomes a multiplier effect for the existing, challenges. So the According to me, the indian farmers facing these two main, major challenges currently. And I wanted to, bring to your notice that the historically, the crop production is being affected by the, irregular monsoon. So it’s not the new, phenomena. But it came, their challenges came into the domain of, As we are discussing climate change in a larger aspect, in the larger forum, that challenges were, brought into the picture, which are otherwise also they are facing. So one of that, if we see the social challenges where the small and marginal cultivators, which have the low access to technology. Okay, so, then the. And then the second aspect of it is the literacy level and the governance level, which is extension services. So access to extension services are very low. Okay, so these challenges, which are generally faced by the, cultivators, and due to erratic monsoon, and the increase in extreme events that that is getting intensified, these challenges are getting intensified for the, basically indian farmers. Yeah. So that are the major.

Sandeep Pai: Wonderful. So I think erratic weather patterns is one of the challenges you have. That actually feeds into the next question I have, which I’ll start with Rishika again, because it’s something she’s been reporting on. I think one of the things that. One of the ways to assist. I mean, of course, you have left so many interventions. Climate and development m issues have so many intersectional, points. But one of the things was to set up these agro met units, which provided free of cost, weather advisory services, information on fertilizers, crops, etcetera, to farmers. Just tell us the history of this, what it was meant to do. I think this was a government program. So if you can just for our listeners sake, just give a background of what that is.

Rishika Pardikar: The government launched a scheme called Grameen Krishi Mosamseba GKMs. and under this scheme, they, established district aggro met units, damos, across like almost 200 districts. So basically, the idea was to take weather data and make them turn them into useful agricultural advisories for farmers. So basically, what Dharmu staff do is they take data from IMD, for example, rainfall, for example, humidity, wind speed, and they prepare agricultural advisories twice in a week for farmers in their district. So what Dhamu, staff do is they actually take weather information from the IMD and they convert them into useful inputs for agricultural practices. So for example, if a farmer knows that in the coming week there will not be much rainfall, he can delay sowing or he can make arrangements for irrigation. So actually, firstly, what everyone should know is that around 85% of farmers in India are small and marginal and a vast, and a vast section of them depend on rainfall, agriculture. So this means they are directly vulnerable to weather variability. So if you are a small farmer dependent on rain fed methods, then you should know how weather would vary next week, tomorrow, whatever it is. So these weather advisories would go to farmers in advance, so they would be prepared this week, for example, with information for the next week, so the farmer can actually plan and prepare what to do. And it’s not just about rainfall or irrigation. So they would tell them when to sow, when to harvest, how much fertilizer to use, and, and also soil moisture, everything. So even irrigation depends on soil moisture, right. So Dharmo staff would give them all of this information. So this scheme was literally about giving farmers information. Information is a very powerful tool, so not all of us recognize it. So obviously there are climate adaptation measures, there are climate resilient practices, seeds, maybe all that is great, but then we don’t value information enough. And I think that is my biggest learning from tracking this scheme now for a few months, that we don’t recognize the value of information, just pure information, whether it is the right to information act itself or even things like weather advisories, we really need to recognize that empowering people to take their own decisions, science and information is the biggest tool, at least one of the biggest tool. Obviously you need money and things to implement these, but we don’t recognize the value of information enough. And that is what this scheme was doing. Like, to me, literally, the scheme is the first time I have seen science being taken directly to people, and people using science, them actually putting it into practice. And this was a government scheme, fully funded by the government and made available to farmers for nothing, for no cost. And I think the biggest design advantage of this scheme was that these Damus were co located within the Krishivigyan kendras, KVKs. So KVKs are associated with the local agricultural university. I have visited the one here in Bangalore. So these KVKs and the agriculture universities also, they already have networks with millions of farmers. They have routine interactions with farmers for a lot of other things, whether it’s an exhibition on seeds, other research, whatever it is. So Damu’s could actually build on this network of. I mean, they could actually take advantage of this network which is already existing. and the other, I mean this scheme was really well designed. So, for example, the advisories that were going to farmers was going in local languages and many times in person communication also. So for example, in parts like North Karnataka, there’s a literacy problem among farmers. Not everyone can actually read. So if you give an advisory, even in the local language, even in Kannada, if they, if they are not literate enough, they will not be able to make use of that information. But also damu staff and KVK staff, the Krishivigyan kendra, they were also giving them in person communication. So it was just a really well designed, a very ground up kind of scheme. And there was a lot of scope for extending the scheme enhancing, because there are only about 200, district aggromate units. So m we have many more districts in India. So there was a lot of scope to actually improve the capacities of these staff to extend this to many more districts also. And over the years, multiple studies over the years, including the study conducted by Rakesh, they have shown that, this, agriculture advisory services have benefits in terms of improved yield for farmers and lower input cost. So if you use fertilizers efficiently, if you know when to use fertilizer, when to use pesticide, how effectively to use it, you will minimize your input cost also. So both in terms of minimized input cost and higher yield, like they were direct material benefit to farmers from this scheme.

Sandeep Pai: fantastic. Thank you for explaining the background of this. I think I have a lot of questions. I want to come back to you about some of your experience, but let me turn to Rakesh because he studies this in a more, scientific and academic way. So what are your thoughts about such informational service based units or agro met units? And you also wrote a paper, rakesh, which my quote is the role of agro Metrological advisory services in enhanced food security, and reducing vulnerability to climate change. Can you explain about the paper, what was the study, what did you find and, your overall thoughts on agromete units?

Rakesh Nannewar: Okay, so I’ll start with my thoughts on these aggregate units. So as Rishika correctly pointed out, the, this advisory, services started, now currently they are giving under the scheme gram in Krishna Muslim Seva. But I would like to give the little bit historical background of these services. So basically it’s all started by 1932 when the agro metrology is being recognized that started to understanding crop weather relationship. So they started this agro metrology In IIt M pune. First that branch in IITM pune in 1932. So After that 1945 the first farmer bulletins they started, okay but that was very awake because that time, till that time The understanding of weather and crop has not well studied in academic domain. So then later they started studying the crop phenomenological stage wise weather requirements. So those studies happened in India and in 1991 this aggro made field unit started. So Aggro made field units are like The The sets of observation data Collecting for the weather, collecting for the agriculture advisories. So Near about 130 agromid field units started in India. Then After that 2008 When These services are. services used to provide through the two departments, One from the ICAR which is from the agriculture, minister of agriculture that way and one through the IMD. So in 2008 they merged it and The. Collectively the name is integrated Agro Meteorological Advisory services. I’ll repeat this sentence. So in 2008 this District level advisory started providing through the aggregate field units. And That scheme was known as Integrated Agriculture, Agro Meteorological Advisory Services. So after that in 2012, by twelve I think twelve planning Commission they have suggested The scheme and that Integrated Agro Metrology Advisory services are named as a Grammy Krishna Musam Seva. From that The district level advisories will be provided by merging icar plus imdae. So then this with the help of the expertise from the ICAR State Agriculture University and the IMD they started preparing the bulletins at the district level. And in 2018 then they started This agro meteorological advisory services at the block level. So during that period near about 199 there about 200 Damu’s they established at KVKS. So as Rishika correctly said the logic was that the KVKS is an existing public extension unit and where the expertise are already there so they can prepare these advisories. And if you see the structure of this bulletin, So this bulletins at the block level generally provided in a week two times Tuesday and Friday, One in regional language and one in one is in English. So this bulletin for that the forecast information is being provided through the Med center. Med center. Now for the Karnataka Med center. State med center is in Bangalore, okay? So Med center provide this forecast information. At the ground level, IMD units, which are. One is agromat field units, one is district aggregate units. And with the help of this metrological overcast information and the information which has been collected by the Dhamma officials and the AMFU official regarding the crop stage situation at that block level, at that district level, by amelgation of both information, they prepare the advisories, okay? With the experts. So there are existing experts they use. So generally in academic term we say that these services is multi institutional and multi channel. Okay? So this is how the. They prepare the bulletins. Okay. Once this bulletin is being prepared, then there are various communication method through which they disseminate the service, okay? So there are various challenges in that communication also. But basically that is being reached till now, in very large proportion. Near about 43 million farmers are ah, the beneficiaries of these services according to the government data only. And the Near about I’ll tell you the exact number. 700 districts are covered through these advisories. And 3000 blocks, there are about 3000 blocks, which is like taluks, is being covered through the services till now. So this is the idea, of the services, how these services work and how the preparation happened. then I’ll come to the Exact. My take on this services. So basically this, this service is doing science for the farmer. I feel in that way doing science for the farmer. And first I would like to explain this theoretically what this services, means. So I studied in such a way where I have studied these services overall when this 1960s, our green revolution, time and all, any technology takes time to diffuse. That’s what the understanding is. Any scientific information takes time to diffuse in the society. That’s how these services also Overall over the period we are seeing now that diffusion at the ground level is visible. So through my research I identified that

Rakesh Nannewar: When I started studying this services, these services have been used by the cultivators. Okay, so this is, these are very useful service. yeah. So in this advisory services there are forecast information on the seven weather parameters, rainfall temperature, minimum and maximum temperature, relative humidity, then the wind speed and wind direction. That seven. And first part of it will be the forecast for the next five days. Okay. And the second part of it is the agriculture advisories. So these agriculture advisories are crop specific and crop stage specific. Okay. So it’s like from the beginning. So they have created this Agro material units crop weather calendar for each crop. So that They can use this calendar for the region, for the, each agroclimatic zone. Okay. So with this they prepare the advisories for each crop here. The thing is the role of this damu’s amfus is to know, understand the current situation of crop. Okay. What exactly is happening, the current situation of crop so that they can give accurate information related to the advisories. And This, this advisor is how it helps to the farmer to take a better decision. Okay. To take an informed decision. As Rishika also correctly pointed out, it’s a knowledge based service. Okay. So you are not giving it anything physically, but it’s a knowledge, okay. So That, that’s ultimately reducing their risk. Okay. The risk of production they are going to reduce with this informed decision. Okay. There, there what the exact intervention is and how then it’s reflect into the, your productivity, those stuff. Okay. So there are lots of literature which has been proved that the These advisories are useful for the farmers and that is translated into the economic gain also. Okay. So now I’ll come to the my research study. Okay. So I studied this impact of this advisory services in North Karnataka. I think everyone are aware of north Karnataka. So this is Hyderabad Karnataka part. Now it’s known as the Kalan Karnataka region which consists of six districts. Bidar, Kalburgi, then Yadgir, Raichur, Kopala and Bellari. So in the Kalyan Karnataka region there are two agro midfield units. Amfus. Amfu is in Raichur and one AmF is in vidar. Okay. And three Damu’s. Okay. in Kopal, in Yadgir and in Belnari there are three damu’s in this region. So overall this is a rainfall region, completely rainfall region. And the agriculture are dependent on monsoon. The main objective of my was of my study was to, to assess the impact of as. On the crop field and the farm income. Okay. So I first studied the district Raichur and Bidar and we have selected ten villages for the primary field survey. So Near about 70 8%. I’ll discuss the findings of this study. So I’ll go with the first. The socio economic profile in my study area. So near about 78% of cultivar. Cultivars. Cultivators were the small and marginal, landholders. And there about, if you see the social status of cultivar belongs to other backward classes. And I would like to inform you that the Raichu district is one of the low literacy rate. Rail district has one of the low literacy rate in Karnataka itself. So it got reflected in my study also near about 63% of cultivators the head of household. The head of household of the cultivator head of household do not know how to read and write. So that was the scenario for the rightful district. And near about 42% cultivator from the Dida districts who do not know the read and write. And when I see, when I see from the gender perspective, only 10% cultivator household headed by the women’s. So that is the large gap. large gap was there. Then I studied the five major crops, to assess the impact of this air, basically pigeon pea, pearl millet, soya bean, chickpea and paddy. So in the three crops, what I found that the yield difference between beneficiaries and non beneficiaries. For pigeon pea it was 233 for swabbing, 98 for per millet, 318. So beneficiaries have higher, was happening for this three crop. Beneficiaries has higher yield than the non beneficiaries. So for the farm income I have estimated the Then. Then I have used the yield difference which I have found for these three crops, where the as plays played a major role. So those, those who are the beneficiaries of these services has higher yield, okay. For these three three major crops. then I have calculated the farm incomes. So I use this yield difference and I have found that near about rs11,000 per hectare generally, as higher for the beneficiaries than the non beneficiaries cultivators in my image and it reflect around rs9000, per household, okay. So can be saved for the beneficiaries, beneficiaries of this age and by using multiplier, for the whole two districts, near about $9 million potential increase for the all likely non beneficiaries in the study districts. So that was for these three major crops. So from overall, from this study we understood that the income means the economic benefit should, should be told to the people, okay. That this advice for the dissemination and utilization of this service, okay. And the penetration of the service at the higher level. Okay, so this is how this is. Was the major finding from my study area.

Sandeep Pai: Yeah, wonderful. Thank you for breaking it down and explaining that. So, I mean, given all these benefits and clear scientific evidence and also ground evidence that Rishika just. You just found and visited those centers, like, why did the government, shut it down? Or thought about, like, this is not a good idea. Can you tell us the whole story of how that transpired and what you reported and what’s the final outcome as of today?

Rishika Pardikar: Yeah. So, I think around January of this year, I started getting messages from Damu staff, saying that their offices are being shut down. obviously, they were all very concerned. So I got messages from and across the country from many, damu staff. I got these messages. So then I went and I checked, and there was an IMD order issued, I think, around, I think, on the 17 January, saying that these, offices will be shut down in March. then when I try to dig a little more and see what happened. How. Why are these randomly being shut down? I just. I couldn’t find much. But what I found was that there was a, was a finance ministry meeting decision. So, my first guess was, okay, maybe the finances. There’s a. There’s a crunch, and that’s why it is being shut down. But I really wanted to understand what happened in the finance ministry meeting. How did they arrive at this decision? So I started filing rtis. I filed rtis with many ministries. I filed RTI with Earth Science ministry. I filed an RTI with agriculture ministry. I filed RTI with finance ministry sometimes. So it got kicked around a little bit once. One or two went to the appeal stage. Also, I. And I didn’t get proper information. But finally something worked, and I did get this information through RTI. and, when I was reading through the minutes of the meeting, I shared the minutes of meeting with Rakesh also, because he knows this subject. And I also shared it with some other journalists I know, and I read through it as well. So, yeah, when I was reading through these, finance ministry meetings, what I found was there was not a single mention, like, literally zero mention of the benefits of the scheme. There was no mention of it. But worse. Worse was the fact that there was misrepresentation. So, first thing is, you don’t take into account benefits. Secondly, you misrepresent. And this misrepresentation came from Niti Aayog. So what the Niti Aayog did was the nithya yoga said, data collection is automated so we can reevaluate the necessity of having dhamu staff. But this is entirely false because data is not automated. Damo staff take weather information from IMD. They actually, they have you. So you have to apply your mind to take raw rainfall, like in MM. So rainfall data in MM or humidity or whatever it is, to actually convert it into agricultural advisory, like when to sow, when to harvest, how much fertilizer to use. This is not automated. This cannot be automated. Like, because. Okay, so have you ever noticed that if it’s raining in your house, it will not be raining two, three streets down the line, right? Because it varies that much. So IMD will give you district information. You have to. First you have to downscale it, because every farm, it’s different, right? Like, if it’s raining here, it won’t be raining somewhere else in the same district. Also, forget, same industry, it goes down even, even more downscale than that. So. And soil variety varies. Soil variety is not the same across the district. Rainfall is not the same across district. So. So damu staff actually customize for that. Plus, they take raw weather data and turn it into agriculture advisory as to when to sow and when to harvest and how much fertilizer to use, where to store crops, all of that. So this was complete misrepresentation by Atio. Unfortunately, even the ministry of Earth science didn’t, really clarify. So the Ministry of Earth Science also said Damu staff only disseminate data, and there is no role assigned to Damu staff. I am quoting literally from the finance ministry meetings. So even the earth science ministry failed to communicate that Damu staff are very essential for personalizing and customizing this information and turning data into advice, into agricultural advice. Nityaayog went a step further. So, after misrepresenting the role of the Damu staff, Nityaayog also suggested privatization. They said there is a scope for monetization of this weather data. So as of now, currently in India, there are private players who do provide weather advisory services. I have spoken. I actually found one in my area here in Bangalore. There’s one person who provides these services. I have not evaluated what the services are like. Maybe they’re great, maybe they have their flaws, whatever it is. but the biggest problem I saw is the pricing. So if you recollect, I said that 85% of farmers in India are small and marginal. How will they be able to afford to pay? They already have debt stress. There is already a farm prices brewing for decades now. How will they be able to afford these services. So I’m writing another report now. I’m trying to find out what these private services are. What are their prices like? So, and this is just broad prices. and I got this information from KVK people, I got this information from private players themselves, who said that it is. So it is around 20 per year. It can go up. It can go as high as 60 to 80,000 per year if you want downscaled farm level agricultural advisories. Now, people who can afford this are probably like. Like grape farmers in Nashik, probably, or maybe horticulture people who need very, downscale data and who can afford to pay, that is more important. Who can afford to pay for these kind of services? But a regular farmer, an average farmer in India will not be able to pay. And, the other problem with privatization, is that there could be bias, right? And bias is a. So, for example, if so, private labels have links with many. They have links with insurance companies, they have links with fertilizer brands, for example. So how do you decide. How do you decide that this play, this private, business is giving me this advice not because of his ties with this, not because he thinks that fertilizer is great or his bias, but because he thinks it’s good for me. How do you defend. So, yeah. These two. These two points make privatization of this service unaffordable and unviable also to many farmers. But none of this was taken into account. So, firstly, I, spoke to one person who previously headed agro med services at the IMD, and he’s quoted in my report as well. So he was saying that, even according to ministry, the earth science ministry’s own estimates, this scheme costs around 42, 45 to 50 crores a year. Like across India. That is the cost, that is the budget outlay. But the benefit is around 15,000 crores. The benefit is in terms of higher yield and reduced input cost. So these were not taken into account at all at the finance ministry meeting. Plus there was misrepresentation. Plus there was a push for privatization, which is unaffordable in India. So, I mean, that’s just a. It’s a. I’m sorry, but it’s a complete train wreck of a meeting. And as a journalist, I am allowed to say that because I have seen how. How badly the decision was taken. It was a bad decision. But, thankfully, there has been some reporting now that the government is rethinking this. And I’ve even heard from people who work quite closely with the ministry that it is being reviewed. I mean, they are thinking of reviving and bringing back district agro matter units and that’s great. Like, I’m very glad to hear this, but it’s still sad that a good scheme which should have been enhanced, if anything, in the climate change era, we should be working on climate adaptation services. This scheme of working scheme which should have been advanced was shut down. And now I don’t know when the revival will happen. So there’s a huge break now. There’s a huge gap now. and some dharmusta, they had to go to court also. They have got stay orders in some states like Karnataka is one state I know, even in states like Orissa, I think in Maharashtra, the amustaf, they have filed court cases and they have got a stay order. so they are continuing to provide the service. But yeah, as a nationwide scheme, it is abruptly shut down now because of very, very poor decision making skills. And one tamustaf even told me this, I have quoted him in my report where he said that if they had consulted even one farmer, they would know how much a farmer would benefit from the service. Because that finance ministry meeting, there was no farmer representative, there was no voice that could speak to what kind of benefit a farmer gets from this scheme.

Sandeep Pai: So, yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing all the details. I mean, I just want to go back to your big picture point. I mean, this is a case in point that sort of demonstrate how little we value information, right? I mean, like in our work or in other work on climate globally, we have seen that it all starts with information. even implementation has to start with information. You can’t implement anything if you have no information. So, I’m just wondering if you want to speak a bit more about the value of information in general, about sort of like why it’s crucial for climate adaptation. and also, if you want to just, if you have any stories that talk about, you know, beyond this aggroment issue, it’s congratulations. That seems like you had a big impact. And, you know, it’s, it’s in the revival stage that that is like a dream for a journalist. I’ve been a journalist in my past life, so congratulations on that. But like, I want to hammer this point about information and the value of the power of sort of information and why it’s crucial for adaptation. And if you have any solutions to that, that’d be amazing.

Rishika Pardikar: Yeah. I think there has to be a wider recognition of the importance of importance of information. So everyone broadly talks about climate change awareness, right? So we all talk about how there is not enough awareness across countries, and this is said about India also. But anyone who has ever spoken to a farmer will not say, farmers do not have climate change awareness because a farmer who has seen rainfall variability year on year, season after season, not even year on year, season after season, a farmer who has seen that patterns are not what they were like before, any farmer will tell you, okay, what we are seeing today is not normal. Maybe he will not use a word like word saying climate change, but that doesn’t mean that they’re not aware of how weather patterns have completely changed. So, imagine if your livelihood, if your life is completely dependent on this one work that you do, which is farming, and if that is impacted by weather variability, will you not be aware of it? It’s impossible for you to not be aware of it. So I think, firstly, we need to correct how we see climate change awareness and more broadly. I would really be happy if we start recognizing the value of information, like stop talking about climate change awareness, try to engage with farmers with what they know already, and they know this from the ground. So I know climate change from a climate science point of view, but my life personally has not been very much impacted by climate change. I can stay indoors, I can turn on the ac. but for a farmer who has seen weather variability, who has seen how rainfall patterns have changed, like, try to build on that knowledge. I think the way we approach this question should be different and also valuing information. So we think of. So when we talk about agriculture and adaptation, we think of, climate resilient seed varieties, for example, or some other technology, which is great. Like, I’m not against technology. I, think it’s a excellent, I think it’s been a, I think it’s a very, very useful tool. But we also need more information. And this scheme was that, the scheme was one of those schemes where. So imagine 1020 years after using this information, after a farmer will read rainfall in Canada. So we’ll read about what the rainfall numbers are like, what the humidity is like, what the wind speeds are like. He would know how to use it. You, maybe a few years, maybe a few decades later, you will not need Dhamu staff because of so much interaction and collaboration between them already. The farmer can do it himself. So, anyway, IMD data is public, right? Anyway, IMD is public and it is freely available to all. And this is how you improve, how you disseminate information. Actually, this is, this is what science education is. So tomorrow, if the farmer can himself take this and see how to better crop, how to better have cropping patterns. And that’s great. so I say this even about the RTI act. So if you, I don’t have the data for this, but I’m quite sure that if you try to get data about who uses RTI most, it’ll be probably like a student filing about examination results. It’ll be like a worker asking about minimum wage, asking about some contracts. So it is people to whom this information is crucial to livelihood and crucial to life. So, journalism, obviously, journalists also use it. But I think we tend to forget a vast section of society for whom these services are necessary, are utterly necessary, and we really need to value, information a lot more. So, yeah, that’s what I want to say about this.

Sandeep Pai: Thank you. Thank you for passionately sharing, and I completely agree with you. You know, anything starts with information, then only you can go higher up the chain. Rakesh, let’s turn to you and let me ask you this sort of like last set of two questions. we are almost at an hour. so because you study this topic, of agromet units and generally agriculture, like what are the other ways? So obviously agromet units are one way to adapt to the impacts of climate change. That’s one way farmers would benefit, that’s the information. What else, what are the other ways farmers can adapt to the impacts of climate change in India?

Rakesh Nannewar: yeah, so there are lots of studies which has studied the real time, like the contingency plan, like the real time, how the, how we can improve, the farm management practices at the particular weather situation. Those studies already has been done. And based on those studies, there are lots of climate resilient varieties they have developed. Okay, so now, now became the major challenge is to provide this climate resistant varieties to the cultivators. So adequate inputs. So that’s, that’s how the first step for the to improve the resilience and to reduce the adverse effect of the weather and climate variability. So that is the first step. the already they are, they are taking, but now we have to put it into the large scale. So now there is like Nikra Krida, they have developed those varieties for the climate resilient varieties. So now the, the main point is making the robust extension system. So what is, what I mean by that the robust agriculture extension system where So one of the objective of the agriculture extension is to take a feedback, the feedback mechanism where, where in these services also that was the major part. That, that was doing a major part. There is a means the farmer should give feedback on the advisories. In that way they can improve the Service or the quality of the agriculture bulletins. So this is how the main aspect of the extension where the Feedback mechanism should come means the feedback from the farmer should come to the. Any services or the related to technology, whether that technology is suitable for that agroclimatic zone. So everything is changes, with the crop, crop specific, region specific. Okay. So every region demands in a different manner. Okay. Then the, every cultivators. So like the small and marginal have the different sets of challenges than the large and the medium landholders. So we can. We have to Put it in such a way where the one model can’t fit everything. Okay. We have to go with the targeted manner. We have to target the Because with increase in the extreme events, the small and marginal cultivators become more vulnerable. Okay. So we have to target those cultivators. We have to save their yields. We have to manage their risk. So we have to provide them with the climate resilient varieties so that they can save their crops. So these are the broad. My thought is like adequate inputs, whether that is the land, seed, fertilizer and irrigation, because irrigation also becomes very important in a rainfall region. So like where I studied the Kalankarnataka region, the irrigation is one of the important aspect. So the various watershed management program. Okay. So that the Groundwater level should improve. Okay. So that those stuff they should do. So overall, the ecosystem they should meet where the all input, adequate input should be provided to the farmers so that they can save their cops. That’s what the, apart from. From the aas they can provide with this service.

Sandeep Pai: Wonderful. Thank you so much. Rishika, do you want to take us home with any sort of last thoughts about like what would be kind of your big picture or recommendations looking into this, but also generally about like how do we adapt to the impacts of climate change, especially in rural areas. Really appreciate your thoughts. So. Yeah, take us home with that.

Rishika Pardikar: Yeah. So this is. I’ll try to expand on what I was reading even in the recent IPCC ar six report. So there is a chapter on sustainable development. It’s great. I think everyone, if you can. So I know that people don’t usually read IPCC reports and completely even I haven’t read all the chapters because they are quite dense. But this one chapter I would recommend. So it’s about sustainable development, and it is really eye opening in the way that, okay, these things are. These are some things that we think we know, but it’s good to have data back it up. I think 40% of people in high income countries will experience impacts only at three degrees. What a, low income country would experience at 1.5, what an average citizen of a low income country would experience at 1.5. I mean, this is. We know how much poverty and inequality play a role, but it’s good to have data and analysis to actually articulate what these. What this is like. and that chapter is just great. So, recently, I was reading it, like, minutely, and there was this other section, where it said that even if emissions are kept low and we keep 1.5, we actually meet the 1.5 degree c target. We keep warming below 1.5. Even then, if we have poverty and inequality, adaptation will be a problem because capacity to adapt will not be much. I think for a country like India, this holds a big lesson, because poverty, obviously, we see it everywhere. You can’t be in India and not see poverty. And for inequality, I would talk about caste. So this is. You do need to address issues of poverty and caste and other inequalities also, like, gender is one. I think our adaptation plans should be a lot more tailored to what this adaptation. What does adaptation mean for us? So, information, I brought it up. The other gap I see is there’s not enough focus on caste. I’m not the person to talk about it because I’ve not done any research on caste. I don’t know, but I know that many people are actually working on how to try to address caste inequalities with climate change adaptation, like research. And I think that’s great. I mean, I think we have to tailor our adaptation strategies to what our local realities are. And our, local reality is poverty. Our reality is cause. So if you go to a village. So if you. If you ask me what I would want this village to be like, I would say I would. I wouldn’t want so many people to be poor. I wouldn’t want so many people to be, to suffer from caste. To suffer from caste inequalities. And this is what we have to address. yeah. So, information, inequality, poverty. Those are my three messages. Yeah.

Sandeep Pai: Thank you. Thank you so much for such powerful, lines and sentences to end. I thank you so much, both of you. I really appreciate your time. and I’m sure our listeners will really enjoy this episode where we did an interplay between science, theory, and also like real journalism with impact. So, thank you so much once.

Rishika Pardikar: Again, thank you for inviting us to.

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